Today's White House press briefing focused extensively on the questions of where the president and vice president stand on marriage equality -- and left little resolved.
Although the questions didn't turn to marriage for a whole 3 minutes and 30 seconds into the briefing, once they start they are peppered throughout the remainder of the briefing.
Regarding the vice president's statements, although White House press secretary Jay Carney attempted to claim that Vice President Joseph Biden had said on Sunday's Meet the Press that his views on marriage were evolving, Metro Weekly corrected Carney and noted that it was a Biden spokesperson, not Biden, who claimed that the vice president was evolving on marriage.
Biden on Meet the Press had said that Americans are coming to understand that questions about marriage equality come down to a "simple proposition": "Who do you love and will you be loyal to the person you love."
After he continued by saying, "And that's what people are finding out is what all marriages at their root are about. Whether they're marriages of lesbians or gay men or heterosexuals," host David Gregory asked, "Is that what you believe now?"
Biden replied, "That's what I believe."
As for the president's position, among the most pointed questions came from NBC's Chuck Todd, who took Carney through the crazy-quilt of the administration's statements on marriage equality in what Metro Weekly has covered previously as "Obama's Adventures in Wonderland" -- following First Lady Michelle Obama's comments regarding the Supreme Court deciding "whether we can ... love whomever we choose" -- and "Through the Obama Administration's Marriage Equality Looking-Glass" -- following Vice President Joseph Biden's comments shown on Meet the Press on May 6.
In addition to the questions regarding Biden's statements, the briefing came just hours after Education Secretary Arne Duncan became the second member of the president's cabinet to publicly state his support for marriage equality. In November 2011, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan was the first sitting cabinet member to announce such support and did so in an interview with Metro Weekly.
After discussion of Duncan and Biden's statements, Carney was asked by the Associated Press what Obama would say if asked his personal views on marriage equality.
"The president is the right person to describe his own personal views," Carney said.
READ the extensive marriage-equality part of today's transcript after the jump.
WATCH the briefing:
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THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release May 7, 2012
BY PRESS SECRETARY JAY CARNEY
James S. Brady Press Briefing Room
1:35 P.M. EDT
MR. CARNEY: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room for your daily briefing. It's good to see you. I hope you had a terrific weekend. And I have no announcements to make at the top, so I'll go straight to questions.
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Q I have one more on a different subject. This morning, the Education Secretary, Arne Duncan, put himself on record in favor of gay marriage. Yesterday, the Vice President indicated something along the same lines. Does this box the President in ahead of the election? Have his views changed at all on this subject?
MR. CARNEY: Well, I have no update on the President's personal views. What the Vice President said yesterday was to make the same point that the President has made previously, that committed and loving same-sex couples deserve the same rights and protections enjoyed by all Americans, and that we oppose any effort to roll back those rights. That's why this administration opposes the Defense of Marriage Act and supports legislation to repeal it. The administration also has stopped defending the constitutionality of Section 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act in legal challenges.
Secretary Duncan was asked a question about his personal views on an issue and he offered them. And obviously this is an issue that many people have a view on and we respect the right of all people to have an opinion -- a personal opinion.
Q If asked at this point a similar question for his personal view, would the President give it?
MR. CARNEY: I think the President is the right person to describe his own personal views. He, as you know, said that his views on this were evolving, and I don't have an update for you on that.
* * *
MR. CARNEY: Yes, Jessica.
Q Jay, the President has raised millions of dollars from LGBT donors, many of whom say that they believe in a second term the President will come out in support of gay marriage. So doesn't he owe them -- or owe voters in general -- his direct response and just stop dancing around the issue and telling voters will he or won’t he support gay marriage in a second term?
MR. CARNEY: The President was asked this and said that his views on -- his personal views on this were evolving. The President does have, as you noted, significant support in the LGBT community, and that's because of his unparalleled record in support of LGBT rights. That includes the fight to repeal successfully "don't ask, don't tell.” It includes signing hate crimes legislation that includes LGBT persons. It includes ending a legal defense of the Defense of Marriage Act. It includes --
Q -- he says to these audiences --
MR. CARNEY: -- ensuring hospital visitation rights for LGBT patients and their loved ones, and I could go on.
Q On June 23rd --
MR. CARNEY: His record on the LGBT rights is simply unparalleled, and he will continue to fight for those rights going forward.
Q Jay, on June 23rd, he told an LGBT audience, “Everybody deserves to be able to live and love as they see fit. I don't have to tell the people in this room we’ve got a ways to go in the struggle.” What is he referring to if not gay marriage?
MR. CARNEY: Well, I think you have heard him say and those in the administration like myself who speak for him that he strongly opposes efforts to restrict rights, to repeal rights for same-sex couples. He has made his opposition to those efforts in various states known and will continue to do so.
I think it’s a statement of obvious fact that full enjoyment of rights by LGBT citizens has not been achieved uniformly across the country. And that's why he has taken a stand on -- in opposition to efforts in some states to deny those rights and discriminate against LGBT citizens.
Q So can you explain then clearly what -- how Vice President Biden, who said, there is a consensus building toward gay marriage in this nation, and then came out yesterday saying that he is absolutely comfortable with men marrying men and women marrying women having equal rights, is not an endorsement of gay marriage?
MR. CARNEY: Well, I think the Vice President expressed his personal views. He also said he was evolving on the issue. I think the description --
Q When did he say that?
Q He did not say that, Jay.
MR. CARNEY: He did.
Q No. His spokesperson said that afterwards.
MR. CARNEY: Let me just be clear, though. The Vice President -- what he said about the protection of rights of citizens is completely consistent with the President’s position on this issue, and his description of the way the country has moved on this issue I think is wholly accurate. I think we all have seen the data that describes an evolution of views across the country on these issues. So I don’t think there's anything surprising about him saying that.
Q You're trying to have it both ways before an election.
MR. CARNEY: No. Look, this President has been extremely aggressive in supporting LGBT rights. He fought against those who oppose the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell,” and achieved that in this administration. There are those who want to bring "don't ask, don't tell" back. He very robustly fights against efforts to restrict or deny rights to LGBT citizens and discriminate against them, and he’ll continue to do so.
And again, you didn’t want to hear it, but there's a long, long list of the actions that this administration has taken on behalf of LGBT citizens in this country. And that’s a record that the President is very proud of.
Q I want to continue with Jessica’s line ...
* * *
Q Okay. And back to the same-sex marriage issue. I think one of the issues is that when asked about the President’s position, the President no longer said he is evolving on the issue. He says, I don’t have any news to make on that. That’s what Stephanie Cutter, a few minutes ago on cable said -- I don’t have any news for you. The suggestion is that there is news there and you guys are just waiting for the proper time to drop it, likely after November.
MR. CARNEY: I think that’s your characterization, Jake.
Q I think that’s what it means --
MR. CARNEY: I think the President said that he was evolving, and he had -- I think when people have asked him that and he has no update to give them or no change in his views to put forward, that he’s simply saying that I have nothing new for you on that. His position is what it was. And that’s with regards to his personal views.
What I think needs to be remembered here is what he has done in office in support of LGBT rights. And that record is extensive and considerable and unparalleled. And he’ll continue to fight for those rights as long as he’s in office.
Q Positing that the President has done more for LGBT individuals than any other President in history -- so you don’t need to say that again -- (laughter) -- the question is --
MR. CARNEY: But I will.
Q Just for this question. When you get to Norah, whatever you want. But the question is, I think there are very few people who think that the President is not going to, after November, whether he's reelected or not, come out in favor of same-sex marriage. I think there are very few people on the President's campaign who doubt that; very few people who support the President, very few people who oppose the President who have any doubt that that is what is going to likely happen. And if that is the likely future of the President and this position, given that you don't have any news to drop on it where probably his mind has been made up, why not just come out and say it and let voters decide? It seems cynical to hide this until after the election.
MR. CARNEY: Jake, I think the President's position is well known. He's spoken to this. It's gotten a great deal of coverage. I don't have an update to provide you on the President's position. It is what it was. I'm sorry you don't want to hear about the President's support for LGBT rights because it's considerable.
Q It's not that I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear the same talking points 15 times in a row.
MR. CARNEY: I think the -- talking points to you; serious substantial rights to others. Okay? "Don't ask, don't tell" -- repealing "don't ask, don't tell" is a serious matter. The efforts that this administration has taken on behalf of LGBT citizens are serious matters.
Q I'm not belittling that, Jay. We're talking about same-sex marriage.
MR. CARNEY: I think that's the context of this discussion. I just don't have anything more to give to you on the issue of the President's views.
Q Because he's still evolving. Not because you don't have news for me, it's because he's still evolving.
MR. CARNEY: It is as it was, yes.
Q Why does the President oppose same-sex marriage?
MR. CARNEY: I would just point you to what the President has said in the past, both during his campaign for President in 2008 and in answer to a question at the end of 2010. I really don't have an update for you, Norah.
Q Is the President comfortable with the fact of men marrying men and women marrying women?
MR. CARNEY: The President is comfortable with same-sex couples, as the President -- the Vice President said, being entitled to the same rights and the civil rights and civil liberties as other Americans. And that's why he has fought for those equal rights and why he's opposed efforts to discriminate against LGBT citizens and to take away rights that have been established by law.
Q Biden -- the Vice President appears to have evolved on the issue, but the President is still evolving -- is that a fair characterization?
MR. CARNEY: I will leave it to individuals to describe their own personal views. What I can explain to you is what the President's positions are on issues, the actions he has taken at a policy level on behalf of LGBT Americans, and his commitment to continue to take actions on their behalf to protect and defend their rights.
Q Let me ask you this. You have a number of Democratic governors throughout this country -- Governor O'Malley, Governor Cuomo, Governor Malloy, to name a view, now the Vice President, who all support same-sex marriage. Why doesn’t President Obama support same-sex marriage?
MR. CARNEY: I just don't have an update for you, Norah, on the President's position on his personal views. I can tell you that he is a absolutely committed supporter of LGBT rights. His record bears that out. It is an unparalleled record of support for LGBT citizens and their rights, and he's proud of it and he'll run on it.
And I think that it's important to remember when we talk about those accomplishments under this administration that they are far more than talking points; they are considerable, serious demonstrations of progress, important progress -- progress that others would take away and reverse. This President is committed to not letting that happen.
Q When you now say the Vice President is evolving -- he did not say that, as was pointed out, but he used some key words beyond what Norah just quoted. He also said that they are entitled to the same exact rights, all the civil rights, all the civil liberties. Does that mean he supports same-sex marriage?
MR. CARNEY: I was pointing to this statement that the Vice President's office put out yesterday describing his statements, and I don't have any elaboration on that. I can tell you that what he said is completely consistent in that paragraph with the President's views that LGBT citizens should enjoy the same rights and that they should not be discriminated against. And efforts to take away those rights are something that this President strongly opposes.
Q But how come when the President proposes something like the American Jobs Act -- you could name anything -- and he says -- he travels around the country and says, you're entitled to press members of Congress, tell them, are they for this or are they against it -- why can't you from this podium say whether or not the President supports or opposes same-sex marriage?
MR. CARNEY: Well, I can tell you that the President has spoken about this, and that his views have not changed and I have no update to give you on them.
* * *
Q Why did the administration feel like they had to put out a statement clarifying what the Vice President said?
MR. CARNEY: Well, I don't know that the -- the office of the Vice President put out a statement. I think that there was a lot of interest generated by the comments and the office of the Vice President put out a statement to make it clear what the Vice President was saying.
But again, I think that there is a little bit of an overreaction here. The Vice President supports and made clear he supports the President’s policies when it comes to protecting the rights of LGBT citizens, and he also has his own personal views about the issue, as does the President, as do most people. So the President’s record on LGBT rights is extensive, and he is committed to working to move forward on that issue.
Q Is it fair to say that publicly the President and the Vice President disagree on gay marriage?
MR. CARNEY: No, I don't think that's what the Vice President said yesterday. But again, I don't think that's the point. The President and the Vice President and everyone in this administration support the initiatives that this President has taken to protect and defend the rights of all Americans, including LGBT Americans.
Q When it came to the issue of marriage before, there was a time when the President was somebody who believed in deferring it to the states. Does he still feel that way?
MR. CARNEY: Well, the President believes that the states are deciding this issue, and he has made clear --
Q -- clearly a state issue, not a federal issue?
MR. CARNEY: Well, I think that we certainly oppose efforts to take away rights at a federal level, which some politicians suppose -- a constitutional amendment to deny rights to LGBT Americans across the country -- we oppose that. The President opposes that. States have taken action on this issue, and the President believes that when the process works that it’s a positive thing. He also opposes efforts in states to repeal rights or deny rights to LGBT citizens that have already been established.
Q So what would that put him -- where would the President be then on the amendment in North Carolina that would ban gay marriage?
MR. CARNEY: The President, through the campaign -- but the same person opposes efforts to deny the rights of citizens in any state where those rights have been established.
Q So he opposes -- so help me out there. He opposes bans on gay marriage but he doesn’t yet support gay marriage?
MR. CARNEY: The record is clear that the President has long opposed divisive and discriminatory efforts to deny rights and benefits to same-sex couples. That is a position he has taken that precedes his taking a position in North Carolina. It’s a position he’s taken in other states where this has been an issue. Yes, he is opposed to efforts in states to deny rights that have been provided to citizens.
Q You understand why there is so much confusion --
MR. CARNEY: Well, he believes that states --
Q -- because you’re saying he opposes bans on gay marriage but he’s not yet for gay marriage. I mean, that’s --
MR. CARNEY: He believes that the states are -- marriage is a state issue, and the states have the right to take action on it. What he opposes is efforts to repeal rights that have been granted to LGBT citizens. He thinks that's discriminatory and wrong.
* * *
MR. CARNEY: Let me get Laura, and then yes.
Q There’s going to be an effort this summer to have support for gay marriage as part of the Democratic platform. Does the President believe it’s important that the platform reflects his views?
MR. CARNEY: Well, on the issue of the platform, which hasn’t been developed yet, I would refer you to the DNC.
Q My question was whether the President -- this is a question for the President -- whether the President thinks that the platform just kind of doesn't matter, which some people say, or whether it really is a statement of his views whatever those may be?
MR. CARNEY: I think it’s a statement of the party’s view and has long been that. But I don't have -- I haven’t had that discussion with him. But I think a platform is a statement of a party’s views. It is called a Democratic or Republican Party platform. But for questions about the development of that platform I’d refer you to the DNC.
Q He is the head of his party.
MR. CARNEY: Again, I don't have a different answer for you, Laura. It’s a platform that hasn’t been developed. I would point you to the DNC for questions about it.
* * *
MR. CARNEY: Yes, Mara.
Q Just to get clear on your criteria, you said that you oppose state efforts to take away rights. In North Carolina gays can't marry now, so what is the reason to oppose North Carolina?
MR. CARNEY: The referendum would, as I understand it, restrict and deny rights to LGBT Americans. And the President --
Q That they currently have in North Carolina?
MR. CARNEY: That's my understanding, yes.
Q Okay. My other question is, is marriage a civil liberty?
MR. CARNEY: You have to ask civil libertarians or lawyers?
Q Well, in the White House view, is marriage a civil liberty?
MR. CARNEY: We believe that -- the President believes strongly that LGBT Americans should enjoy the same legal rights, and he opposes efforts to deny rights to LGBT American and discriminate against them.
Q Okay. Just another question. It's pretty rare when somebody runs for office saying, in effect, I'm getting ready to change my mind. And you've really savaged Mitt Romney for changing his mind, and I'm wondering if you don't run some risk of looking kind of too clever by half here.
MR. CARNEY: Look, I don't have an update for you on the President's personal views. He described them in response to a question. This has gotten a great deal of coverage in the past. That's the answer he has and I don't have a new answer for you.
Q But what would you say is the definition of "evolving"? You've said it so many times, it has to mean something specific.
MR. CARNEY: The President said that his views on this are evolving. I think --
Q Is he getting ready to change?
MR. CARNEY: Not necessarily. I think he just said they were evolving. And that's at a personal level. His views on LGBT rights are crystal-clear and this administration has taken actions that are unparalleled to support those rights. And he'll continue to take those actions because he thinks that's the right thing to do.
Q How could his views be crystal-clear if everybody in this room is needing to ask you questions?
MR. CARNEY: Chris, I think everybody in this room is reacting in the way that folks often do to one story that takes off and then they run down the field and chase it. They're reacting to comments on a Sunday show. Nothing has changed in the President's firm commitment to LGBT rights and nothing's changed and I have no new information --
Q -- position by the White House.
MR. CARNEY: It's the same position. It's not the position of the White House. The President's position is --
Q Then why did you guys send out statements to clarify?
MR. CARNEY: Because the Vice President's statements were being misinterpreted by some, so he -- so there was an effort to clarify it by the office of the Vice President.
Q Jay, what do you think the word "evolving" means?
MR. CARNEY: But that's where the President is, okay.
Q Is he unevolved?
MR. CARNEY: April.
Q That means changing.
Q Okay, now I have the ball, let me run with it.
MR. CARNEY: Policy positions haven't changed, Jake. And I can remind you that his support for LGBT rights is unprecedented and compares favorably to anyone else out there in the political arena who's advocating for these rights. And he'll continue to support them.
Q All right, now I'm going to take the ball and run down the field with it real quick. And I want you to dissect the evolution.
MR. CARNEY: No, I'm not going to, April. I'm sorry, I don't have anything new for you.
Q No, no, no, no. Okay, you're not going to, but can you at least say yea or nay when I kind of try to -- (laughter) -- here's the deal. Here's the deal. Before we heard that it was -- he was having a hard time marrying issues of his faith and rights. Is that the evolution? Is that where the evolution issue is a holdup?
MR. CARNEY: The next time the President has a news conference, if you want to ask him that you’re certainly welcome to. I do not have an update for you on the President’s personal views.
* * *
Q Jay, did the President know before yesterday, did the President know that the Vice President was comfortable with men marrying men? Is this something they’ve discussed?
MR. CARNEY: I don’t have a readout for you of conversations they’ve had on this issue.
Q Is it something they’ve discussed?
MR. CARNEY: Again, I don’t have a readout for you of private conversations that they’ve had.
* * *
MR. CARNEY: Jen.
Q Thanks, Jay. Is it still accurate to say, then, that President Obama is opposed to gay marriage?
MR. CARNEY: I would simply say that his views are evolving, which is what he said. And I don’t have an update for you on that issue.
Q Just to clarify, were you saying that the Vice President's comments were his personal views? Were you looping it together with Arne Duncan's views?
MR. CARNEY: The Vice President spoke very clearly about the President's policies, and they're entirely consistent with the policies that this President has supported. He also -- he talked about evolution in this country and other issues, and those were personal views. I will simply refer you to the statement that the office of the Vice President put out.
* * *
Q Jay, just want to get back to -- as someone who's worked with the Vice President before, do you remember him ever speaking so favorably on the issue of same-sex marriage?
MR. CARNEY: I think I will simply point you to what the Vice President said yesterday. The Vice President supports this President's policies in support for LGBT rights.
Q Well, he said as progress. I mean, is this an evolution --
MR. CARNEY: I would just point you to what the Vice President said.
* * *
Thank you all very much.
END 2:33 P.M. EDT